Bill Peterson
Courtesy of Bill Peterson
As part of the research for Korea: The Unfinished War, American RadioWorks conducted almost 100 interviews with veterans and historians. We've made those interviews available here. Rough transcripts accompany each interview - but these are incomplete, and often paraphrase the speaker. The authoritative source should be seen as the audio recording, not the transcription. You can listen to and/or read the interviews -but please DO NOT QUOTE from the transcript.
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William Peterson interviewed by Ellen Guettler
Washington, D.C.
November 13, 2002
{William Peterson:} I'm William F. Peterson. Most people call me Bill. I'm a resident of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. My Korean service was achieved with the 51st Fighter Interceptor Wing. I was with the 51st Supply Squadron.
I am a quasi-dependent brat. My father retired from WWI service and was the first black fire captain for Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Was called to be fire chief at Tuskegee. Due to fact that he was fire chief, I lived on the base in Mitchell Village, apartments on the base. I got connected with Tuskegee Airmen. I was their paperboy from 1945 to the closing of the field. Since I was the only kid of any age I also babysat for some of those who were married so I got to know them quite intimately. My idol, the later Colonel George Spencer Roberts, the second highest ranking, was one of the original 5 cadets the graduated in March of 1941. Got their wings and commissioned as second lieutenant. He did come back to Tuskegee to be professor of Air Science. I've known him for most of my life and he was my idol.
{Ellen Guettler:} Importance of Tuskegee Airmen.
{WP:} Most of us probably didn't think much of Tuskegee Airmen until incorporated in 1972. When you go to school and I saw no history of blacks from WWI, WWII. When the Korean War came along in 1950, 1951 I was in high school and my only knowledge of the war was through the radio. I kind of distinctly remember the Cuban thing—Batiste and Castro were the big thing of my high school days. We had some WWII people who came back to my segregated high school. Since the college was 10 miles from the base some came and finished college. Many who finished in 1946 to 1950 were called to active duty in Korea. A lot of people I knew. Where I got my direct contact was through the high school guys who graduated or not and down south schools close in May for farming system. Those guys were around for junior and senior prom and I won't forget that one of those military guys took the date I was supposed to have! But I've seen the young lady more than once over the years and we've gotten over that.
{EG:} Did you have any sense of the Tuskegee Airmen as being a historic group?
{WP:} No. Never heard too much. My father kept a diary which, when he passed in 1979, I became the owner of. After I retired from my second career with the Defense Logistics Agency in 1997 I went to Minneapolis where he last resided. My sister gave me these books. I saw the historical perspective. I'm trying to write a hopeful publication that could be used in junior highs to colleges that will capture what black Americans did from WWI through Desert Storm. I'm working with East Coast Chapter of Tuskegee Airmen and a Marine Chapter. Hopefully someone will utilize this. In the interim we as groups go around and do history seminars and tell about the Tuskegee Airmen and Montford Point Marines. If you saw the movie "Patton" everyone forgets to talk about the all-black tank battalion that served consecutive days on the line in WWII.
{EG:} Tell story of your enlistment.
{WP:} My father was a very rigid man. When I was 17 I enlisted in all the services to keep him off track and vacated our Tuskegee residence on the 13th of June 1951 and ended up in the Air Force underage - made a little adjustment of my birth certificate - and didn't tell anyone where I was located until I turned 18 in February of 1952. In the interim, I went to Lachlan Air Force Base, survived it, which was kind of easy for me. All I needed to do was put the uniform on, I’d already been trained on base. Then from there I went to F. E. Warren Air Force Base Cheyenne, Wyoming. I never had been further west than Ohio. Found 3 persons of color—Negro, black, whatever we were called then. They were residents there. I went through the Air Force Supply School and was one of the honor grads and got promoted. I was on orders to got o Europe and I went to my commander. I was then 18. Got my military records adjusted correctly and asked to go to Korea.
{EG:} Integrated training?
{WP:} Air Force was most integrated, all was. Not a lot of blacks but there was no segregation when I went to the Air Force in 1951 it had been integrated, Air Force. When I got there never engaged in segregated units, but that doesn't mean some of the individuals didn't give you a hard time, every once in a while there was an officer who would. Example of that, when I got to Wyoming, officer named Tammy J. Bowden (sp?) from Macon, Georgia. Called me into his office said, "It's bad enough being a nigger, worse to be a dumb one" and then smiled. Wanted me to finish high school, he said “You go back to the barracks to find a solution.” After I execute him about 30 times in my mind I came up with solution. Said I didn't appreciate the way he got the message across. Said I would go to Wyoming High School during another shift. Here was a white man from Macon, Georgia who was fair. If you're doing something to help yourself someone might help you too. He was an inspiration to finish my education.
In Korea I didn't have that kind of opportunity. In June of 1952 the Air Force was just getting fully transitioned over from old P51 which they called the F51 the prop-driven fighter plane—that's what Tuskegee Airmen flew in WWII. By going to the 51st I was honored to serve with my idol, Colonel Spanky Roberts. It was the base that was far enough away from bad combat zones. From 1950 to probably shortly before I got there we got kicked back and forth. We were more stable and best-equipped base. I had the opportunity of keeping those jets ready for combat zones. We had a maintenance depot in Japan and I would go there once a month to make sure we were getting the parts we needed. I felt like we made a contribution to our effort. I wasn't in combat, but those jets were very sensitive aircraft. Transition from prop to jets. We call “MIG Alley” between North and South Korea. Had to operate in different terrain from WWII. The Chinese and Russians were flying for North Koreans. Many of their pilots were darned good and we suffered quite a bit.
By 1952 we were keeping things in check. Had things under control. Had empathy for infantry colleagues. I do believe when you're faced with big divisions of North Koreans and Chinese in terrain that was just pitiful. Lot of people don't realize 24th Infantry Regiment, most people don't realize that unit was on an area of Japan all segregated. Weren't with their main body. Weren't trained, didn't have uniforms and equipment. All things considered, they did a darned good job. I know a former Tuskegee Airman and there are still question marks in history. His request for transferring back to Air Force was not approved because he was already a captain in an engineering company. Had a big skirmish with North Koreans, didn't give him a decoration. Still some controversy. Isolated from any main unit. Had to face enemy without any support. Been a big controversy about 24th, which was disbanded, last of any all-black units. Korea—most any body that hit Korea ended up in integrated units. Marines the same. Learned most of it from friends who stayed in the military.
{EG:} Other people who weren't as fair as the guy from Georgia?
{WP:} Any time anyone gave you a 10-minute speech about how they weren't prejudiced, I usually took that in reverse. My common response was "If you're in this uniform, you should get the same entitlements everyone else gets in this uniform." I used to tell people diplomatically "I don’t' see anyone doing us a favor. We're going through he same training. I don't expect any more or any less." I kind of developed an attitude to get around that. I've had my up and down days but I survived.
{EG:} Opinion on civil rights?
{WP:} I think that most of my generation thought the same as WWII guys—when they came back after fighting in Europe and the Pacific. I think most people –then Negroes until the '65 generation—I think most of them only wanted to have a fair shake at what they were entitled to. The thing that most of who stayed 20 or more years got treated much better overseas. Most of the prejudice that came from people in town when the Americans had told them that around midnight we grew tails, etc. Anywhere you went overseas that was racist, we created it. One thing you did have that was pretty fair you were treated according to rules and regulations of armed forces. Might have trouble from those who were married and had dependents. Sometimes housing became an issue. There always was a problem with blacks. Very few officers on active duty. General B.O. Davis who became a general through almost a threat on Washington that would have complicated things for then President Roosevelt. It took from 1940 to 1954 (while I was in Korea B.O. Davis Jr. came to become commander of 51st Wing). We did have black officers in leadership roles. Colonel Roberts ran the whole base. Davis became second black officer in our armed forces. Took until 1968 Vietnam to get the third one.
From the beginning of this country it took until the Civil War that President Lincoln got a regular black officer of armed forces. General B.O. Davis, Sr. became what we call our First Mustang—enlisted officer. Mustang officers in the 1920's, up until 1945, the end of WWII, we only had 13 regularly commissioned officers from Civil War to end of WWII. We had reserves, but that's a different story.
Most young people in my generation didn't have a favorable opinion of the military. They, like me, ran away from home, needed money. Not coming for positive reason. Their fathers, grandfathers very few were even reserve officers. Most of them didn't come out of what I would call wanting it to be a career or inspired. It was other reasons. I had no intention of being a careerist but I needed the education. The couple times I came back on leave-- I had friends who went to law school, had degrees. Even if you went to Washington many of them were in clerical work, not leadership work. The Civil Rights Act of 1964, which became operational in 1965 gave people an opportunity to grow. Until 1980 and then we started to get a non-affirmative attitude.
{EG:} Has integration of military created more leadership opportunities for blacks?
{WP:} History will reflect the executive order Truman signed was the best thing this ever had. Military led the way and is still leading the way to include people of color—and women—in leadership roles. I think that has been one of the greatest things that has ever happened. I think the only war this country this average citizen has agreed with was Kuwait to save that oil. We're in a questionable situation now. When I came back from Vietnam […] the Korean War was the forgotten war. This being the 50th anniversary and they're doing things.
I went from a high school drop-out to almost a graduate degree. I moved up. In 21 years, yeah I put some effort in it and had some people who saw I was trying and gave me opportunities. I don't think I would have gotten that far in a civilian career. When I did that in 1973 I made it up to grade GM13 wasn't a bad deal. Less stress trying to raise your kids. My wife retired as a reading specialist after 30 years. Our sons both got advanced degrees. Oldest one was Ivy League. Younger one at Food and Drug Administration. My wife is total southern girl, with what our parents provided and what we did ourselves we were able to communicate that to our youth.
I didn't even know where Korea was to be honest with you. It popped up. I knew more about Cuba and Castro because that was on the news every night. I don't think Castro was considered the bad guy when we were in high school. Korea it was after the fact. I hadn't even served in Korea. The only impression I had of Korea, the South Koreans did try to promote democracy—I've been there 2-3 times since I served. South Vietnam, that was a total waste of everyone's time and energy.
{EG:} Reaction of friends and family to sending troops to Korea?
{WP:} My father was a military person. Korea caught the whole country […] communists came across 38th parallel—what was that? Inchon landing of General MacArthur. The next thing we knew was when he ticked off Truman. Then there was a little concern but Korea never got a lot of what I would call national publicity.
{EG:} People reacting?
{WP:} In my generation the military was a blessing in disguise. I don't recall the intensity of public concern about Korea as I saw in Vietnam situation.
{EG:} What were you reading, listening to at the time?
{WP:} I was always into history. My dad was a sticker. There was Don Winslow, Steve Canyon in comics. I was into Mechanical Illustrated. First of all we didn't have the money so the books and things that kids get. I was very interested in history but I didn't have a whole lot of books. George Washington Carver Museum on Tuskegee campus. We lived 10 miles from town, road bus with town kids so didn't have much culture or enrichment. Went to movies on Saturday. Had to sit up in the balcony. Stuff like the Durango Kid. We never had a TV. The first football game I ever paid attention to, Jim Brown, the first black I recall in sports who was a big star. Did key work on one of the Saturday college football games.
To be honest with you, I hate to say this, but at the time I was so disturbed and mad at the world I was hoping I'd get killed as a hero. God takes care of fools and children. My father meant well but my father was a dictator. It was his way or no way and I sensed if I didn't leave one of us was going to be dead. When I was 26 I went to the bar with him and we sat down and from that time until he passed we became father and son and friends but it took a while to get my father away from that old school.
{EG:} Expectations for Korea? Fears?
{WP:} No, didn't have any fears. When you're young, I don't think young people particularly fear. I just wanted to go and do what I had to do.
{EG:} First arrival?
{WP:} I came in […] I'm lucky, lot of guys went in by boat, but I got sent to Travis Air Force Base, Hickman Field Hawaii. Johnson Air Force Base in Japan. Waited around a couple of days until flight to Suwon. They had jeeps and I was dropped off at fly squadron. I went down and checked in. Got a day "personal day" to find a hut. We had a combination of tents and Quonset huts not the luxury stuff of today. So the captain I reported to said "Looking at your record you'd be a good guy for stock control" an administrative job for parts. So one day, about a month later, he said "Come on to the depot with me" in northern Japan. I think because I was good at numbers and being organized he had me do that for 15 months. Apparently did pretty good, got promoted.
{EG:} Difficulty of terrain.
{WP:} We were surrounded by mountains but we had one of better airstrips, semi-concreted. Suwon wasn't that far from Seoul and Inchon, the most metropolitan. We had people living in little huts, rice paddies. When I look at the Americans from 1950 from growing up in the farm area, people who might have made $3.50 a day, the Koreans made .50 a day. The only time I went out in the local area we had an orphanage that we were sponsors of. Being in supply I'd be sure and go out there. If you let others out they had girlfriends out there and the stuff wouldn't get there. I did not go out. I pretty much stuck on the base.
When I had free time I continued my formal education through a correspondence course, I did a lot of that. I was shy and quiet and social life wasn't any big thing to me. I was too young to drink which I didn't like anyway. Guys played pool and poker and I'd see people be rich one payday and 2 days later. The other thing I did which helped me with my father was to buy the house in Minnesota. They were tight for money and my father was 55 and I had to co-sign so I sent an allotment to him. I didn't get married until I helped send my 2 younger sisters to college. I didn't get too enthused about social life until ‘64.
{SS:} Witness to combat?
{WP:} Went on a couple of runs and saw a little engagement. We got hit and had to land. Got a medal. We had to take our weapons out until it was secure, but not a day-to-day intensive situation.
{SS:} Integrated unit?
{WP:} We were from airmen 3rd class, we were guys that most of us were from any where they were 19, 20, 21 I had just turned 18. The normal guys of getting notes from girlfriends. They teased me that I didn't get any. I would say looking at it like you'd find a college dormitory, the exaggeration of young life. Not that I was a saint, but I always did feel certain things of your private life you should keep that way. The only negative thing I saw frankly I didn't appreciate our troops calling the South Koreans "gooks" we seemed to make things very derogatory. Guys acted arrogant, had more money. I found this when I rotated out to England. We were over there, overpaid and oversexed. That was the negative part about that.
Many blacks were shocked to see we had some officers who were more than captains. It really irritated southern whites to be under the command of blacks. Lots of blacks from WWII had become senior sergeants. That helped integration. These guys knew the ropes, knew the customs, the traditions of military.
I’ve heard a couple comments – a guy said, “Here comes this nigger now gonna be in charge of this wing.” And I said, “You better let him hear you say that. I’ve known him since I was a kid…” In time, when people see the person can do the job […]
{EG:} Talk about war on poverty.
[…]
{EG:} So the transition was smooth?
{WP:} I don’t think it was totally smooth, but people knew the penalties. The court-martial standards were rigid.
{EG:} And were they upheld consistently?
{WP:} Oh, yeah. Well, pretty much. When you didn’t have a black officer put in a good word in for you, some of the punishment was extreme. One of the biggest problems in Vietnam was we didn’t have enough black officers. The black troops didn’t feel fairly represented in dispensing of discipline.
{EG:} Do you remember instances of unfair dispensing of discipline?
{WP:} Getting in to the officer’s school was not an easy thing. I found an officer who didn’t read everything he was supposed to read. To this day he says I pulled one over on him.
{EG:} Were you ever in command of white soldiers?
{WP:} Yes, when you become a war officer, you’re going to be in command. When I became commissioned, there were very few blacks in my career field - aviation logistics.
{EG:} How did they respond to your authority?
{WP:} By the time I got to be warrant – we’re talking mid-60s- that wasn’t a big issue. Everybody’s Marine green. They might have called me things off duty. I had a couple “chuckle” incidents.
I remember going down to a store in civilian clothes and the woman behind the counter said “Boy, is there anything else you want?” And I said “Yes, when I grow up, I’ll buy this shit,” and I left everything there. The next day I went back in uniform. I think she got the message ‘cause she was very nice that day.
{EG:} What was it like being in a field with few blacks?
{WP:} Well, you got used to it. Any institution of work, once you’re there a while you see the pattern. I just tried to do the best I could. Some of the blacks used to say to me “You don’t act black.” And I said, “I act according to whatever institution I’m in.” I found it better to say to people, I deal with you as a civilian by your position, description, and role. One time a white woman took me in to see the deputy commander, who was a black female, and she said, “You didn’t treat her as a lady.” And I said, “That’s true, what I treated her as was a personnel specialist whose going to tell me what to do.”
{EG:} What was your understanding of the relationship between the Cold War and the Korean War?
{WP:} I understood the Cold War to be Russia not wanting Germany to get on its feet and not wanting us (U.S., French, British) to get certain areas. In America we had McCarthy running his flaps, if you blew your nose wrong you were a communist, and we were supposed to be going into South Korea to prevent communism. First of all, the Russians at the end of WWII had put troops there, and Ho Chi Minh [sic] didn’t want the country divided. We were supposed to go over there and promote democracy. And my personal view at that time was that we didn’t even have democracy in America, so how could we superimpose something […] we are left with translations, and we have to choose what to believe. Everything’s been reinterpreted. I was in Korea for self-preservation, but we were told we were there for democracy and to prevent Korea from becoming a communist entity. Overall, I think we achieved that.
{EG:} Let’s talk more about that fact that people were fighting for democracy when it really didn’t exist at home.
{WP:} Well, you didn’t have a choice. There was a draft. Most of the people not in college or without economic well-being were black. Some that went may not have wanted to be there, but then they saw what the opportunities were. My son’s – my youngest was 27 when he started making $47,000. I was 46 before I made that kind of salary. My father never made $10,000.
{EG:} Were people voicing thoughts on both sides?
{WP:} Most people that I knew stayed in service for economic and educational benefit. When the country calls you, you have to go, so you deal with that.
{EG:} How did it feel to be in a so-called limited war? To fight for a stalemate?
{WP:} We were out numbered, out warfared. We were not trained for jungle warfare. We had to have all this food, and you could give them suckers, a rice ball, and they’d whip you to death. Life didn’t mean the same as it meant to us.
{EG:} Were there any shifts in morale?
{WP:} In the Air Force, we had a longer tour. But at least we had a roof over our heads. But out there where you may not have a tent and you may not get a meal, I can see how fifteen months would seem a lot longer. Those in the Air Force who were married wanted to get back. Everybody wanted to get their tour over with. Every once in a while when a crash happened […] we all have that fear of the unknown.
{EG:} What was it like when General MacArthur was relieved of his command?
{WP:} He was relieved before I got there. Most of the real raw opinions were that being a general officer who never came back to the United States – a lot of people said that he was too dictatorial and out of tune. Some said Truman should’ve listened to him. But most said you do not disagree in a public manner with the Commander in Chief.
{EG:} Were you in Korea through the armistice?
{WP:} Yes, the armistice was July. I was there enough to see the repatriation of the guys. The only negative thing was we had a few black guys who stayed, and we were kind of disappointed. Why would you want to stay in a country that was even worse off than our own country?
{EG:} That was a pretty public event.
{WP:} Yes, it was.
{EG:} Tell me more about the reaction to that.
{WP:} Well, first of all everyone was glad we could get the prisoners so that brought joy. Then you heard comments, people asking was this all worth what the losses were? And the guys who stayed, they were mud.
{EG:} Did you think that few Americans understood or wanted the war?
{WP:} I don’t think most of us understood it – I’m talking about the public and the troops. A whole bunch of WWII guys got called back into duty, to include Ted Williams. Most Americans that had been in service got recalled, and that was not popular. People were just starting to get on their feet and build houses, and people were looking at freedom and partying and progress. There were a lot of men, black and white, who would be looking at the north end of a south-bound mule were it not for the WWII GI Bill. That was one of the best things. Many men, black and white, got to see other parts of the world and see life in a different perspective.
{EG:} Do you think that’s why people didn’t understand, because they were doing other things?
{WP:} Well, most adults who had been to WWII were engaged in trying to pick up where they left off. It wasn’t greatly discussed. I don’t recall it being in the paper much.
{EG:} Why so different from WWII?
{WP:} WWII had an objective. While we had U.N. representation from other countries, we didn’t have representation that put a lot of men on the line. I just think Korea happened. We were ill-prepared.
{EG:} Did your feelings about the war change after you arrived?
{WP:} My only feeling was I did my duty, and I got what I requested – I didn’t want to go back to the States, and I went from Korea to England.
{EG:} What about your feelings in the issue of civil rights, did they change at all?
{WP:} Civil rights – we have a NAACP at Tuskegee, and my dad used to participate. My attitude about civil rights from Korea to the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was well, that was the second emancipation proclamation. Civil Rights Act did a better job – I don’t think we have segregation per se to the extent we did before 1965, but I believe unless you’re educated, unless you know how to communicate and negotiate, you don’t have a future. I see too many people today who are children of the 1960’s who are going nowhere. We gave them too much and they don’t know how to get it for themselves.
{EG:} Why did you decide not to return to the U.S.?
{WP:} My decision had to do with the fact that I didn’t want to see my father, and I believed we got treated better, as black people, overseas. One of the reasons I decided to go to Korea was that my other offer was a base in Biloxi, Mississippi and I said “I’d rather go to Korea because at least I’m issued a riffle and allowed to use it. If I went to Mississippi it might be used on me.” Until 1966 or so I would have had that same feeling about Mississippi. I enjoyed different freedoms overseas when I was off duty than I would have had in Mississippi.
{EG:} Tell me what those differences would have been.
{WP:} When I went to the Marine Corps in 1955 and I went to Camp Lejeune there was one so-called café for blacks. That was it. If you didn’t have a car, and it was hard to afford it then, it was hard to have a social life. I would have had to go really far away.
Why go to a southern base if you could afford it?
{EG:} You’d rather go to war? When did you return to the U.S.?
{WP:} 1955, briefly in Lebanon 1958, in the States ‘til 1962, then went to Cuba and Japan. Any time I saw an operation going and I could be the supplies officer, I went.
{EG:} When you did return to the U.S., what were some of your thoughts?
{WP:} When I returned in 1965, we were greeted by Vietnam agitators. By that time I was close to retirement, and I learned to ignore it. I met a woman, and she knew enough people to stabilize me socially, and within that circle of friends I learned to tolerate it.
{EG:} Dynamic of going abroad and coming home – were you back and forth during the civil rights movement, and what was that like?
{WP:} From 1963 I was more out of the country then in it – I saw the situation from 3 perspectives – 1. black papers, 2. Stars and Stripes, military version, and what I visually saw myself. Most media, white, were not favorable to civil rights. I think any president other than Johnson wouldn’t have gotten it passed. What hurt our transition – you can’t have a transition to civil rights and fight in a war at the same time. Especially a very unpopular war. I don’t think the war on poverty got a fair shake. Some of the training projects did well. But they didn’t transfer the responsibility back to parents.
{EG:} How did your experience in Korea affect your life?
{WP:} It did one main thing, which I think it does for every women and man who goes out of the country and especially out of the country to war – I think we appreciate that in spite of the problems we have here we are the most democratic, the most free country. I’ve seen many countries and I think our biggest problem is that we don’t appreciate what we have.
{EG:} What should young Americans know about the Korean War that they don’t know?
{WP:} The only thing they need to know is that we went in to allegedly stop communism from taking another part of the world. I think we did that to a great extent. South Korea showed appreciation. We still have cultural battles there, we don’t always respect the citizens of that country. I think we need to do a better job of transition in-country before people leave
{EG:} What about Korea as the forgotten war?
{WP:} I think people didn’t know what the war was about. Even if you asked them today. It’s appreciated but it’s not understood. Looking at comparison of Korean War Monument to Vietnam Memorial – the Vietnam wall is really a grieving monument. Americans seem to be coming to terms with that war.
{EG:} Anything else you’d like to add.
{WP:} I appreciate the opportunity to represent African-Americans and I appreciate that NPR is trying to get that representation. Most of them in my peer group appreciated our country and we still do. We did what we had to do and we’re thankful that it’s being recognized.
END
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